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As a Deviantart group

3 (11.1%)

As a Yahoo! group

0 (0%)

At this same site, only recreated with Warg & Co. at the helm

23 (85.2%)

Other (please specify)

1 (3.7%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Voting closed: January 29, 2012, 09:33:50 PM

[Obi-Rak Kaeliri]

I'm also heartened to hear Maggie say that she would envision operating a group there with *strong* moderation.  I am ALL for moderation!  Strong moderators make the difference in making a group bearable to its members.

Heh, I do not envy anyone who will take on that mantle: it takes introspection taken to an art to foster positive community growth while not suppressing personalities different from your own. There's a fine line between strong moderation and stifling participation.

I'm glad I won't have to think about it soon

[branchscamper]

Eregyrn you're so good with words!  I couldn't put down half of what I was thinking so well XD

Definitely want to thank Foxeye and Kael for all the hard work they have done.  When the last EQFA place went down I was very sad and although it took me a very long time to find this one it made me happy it actually existed!  And it is a huge undertaking as I think anyone who has run a site, holt, or whatnot can agree to.  I moderated a forum based RPG and it gave me headaches trying to keep up with every thing going on.  Even though you are stepping down will you still post art Foxeye?  I hope you're not disappearing from the fandom completely =( 

No matter what's decided I will continue to try to stay with you guys.  Now that I'm back in the swing of things I want to keep up and draw more art and talk with the creative people here.  It's heartening to find a community like this out there on the web.

I think it's awesome that everyone wants to keep it going and is coming up with ideas.  Thank you to all of you as well!  I'm keeping my fingers crossed =D

[Larialoyla]

Agreeing with branchscamper and Eregyrn (my English isn't good enough to properly express what I feel in words, and unfortunately my computer skills aren't good enough either to help run a place like this.. but E & B said it better than me!  )

Thank you Foxeye & Kael! 
(I'm also hoping that you won't disappear from this place completely)
And welcome "Saviour of this Site", whoever you may be  You've got my support!

[Berit]

I too would like to thank Foxeye and Kael for everything they did for us... and I hope that someday, if they are not running the show, that they would join us as members of the site... I'd hate to lose you two, since you did so much for us... I thank you from the bottom of my heart...

And I seem to have a rotten luck with people in the internet and the real world. this has been the only place where my luck was different...

[Treefox]

I have the strong urge to also jump in to express how grateful I am for this site and for how well you handled it! You worked so hard so we could enjoy it, share and comment on the art and build up good relations and friendships. I think that is a big accomplishment and I really want to thank you for this.

[Afke]

I agree with everything said above, you two did a lot, if only simply by creating this place. And if everything works out with moving the site, I'd like to say, Warg: You have saved our lives, we are eternally grateful!

[Maggie]

I don’t mean to play devil’s advocate here but I was just thinking about the situation with Warg taking over. While it is an awesome gesture that allows what Foxeye and Kael created here to live on, maybe with some minor changes but essentially the same, what my question would be is, for how long?

I hear a lot of yay and thank you but no questions about the future. Clearly there aren’t many of us that are technically savvy and so if Warg decides sometime in the near future that taking this on was a mistake what then?

I’m just concerned because while Warg is obviously kindhearted no one has asked if Warg is committed to keeping this going for any length of time. I don’t think any of us want to revisit this situation in a few months or a year’s time if Warg ends up not being able to commit to EQFA anymore.

Maybe it’s just me but I think that sometimes the kindest people with the best of intentions can be the ones that let you down and this is only because they didn’t think it through, they just said yes, I want to help.

So no offence intended toward anyone including Warg but I just wanted to know a little more about the situation and ask the question that maybe people are nervous about asking. I would love to just say yay and thank you but I’m just not wired that way, I need to ask questions and know what’s in store.

As an aside I would also like to thank Foxeye and Kael for their dedication to running this site. The couple of years working on the fan calendar has been worth the price of admission alone (not that I actually had to pay anything ), that and Foxeye’s naughty bits picture. Being the boss obviously has its perks…haha.

[Warg]

I don’t mean to play devil’s advocate here but I was just thinking about the situation with Warg taking over. While it is an awesome gesture that allows what Foxeye and Kael created here to live on, maybe with some minor changes but essentially the same, what my question would be is, for how long?

I hear a lot of yay and thank you but no questions about the future. Clearly there aren’t many of us that are technically savvy and so if Warg decides sometime in the near future that taking this on was a mistake what then?

I’m just concerned because while Warg is obviously kindhearted no one has asked if Warg is committed to keeping this going for any length of time. I don’t think any of us want to revisit this situation in a few months or a year’s time if Warg ends up not being able to commit to EQFA anymore.

Maybe it’s just me but I think that sometimes the kindest people with the best of intentions can be the ones that let you down and this is only because they didn’t think it through, they just said yes, I want to help.

So no offence intended toward anyone including Warg but I just wanted to know a little more about the situation and ask the question that maybe people are nervous about asking. I would love to just say yay and thank you but I’m just not wired that way, I need to ask questions and know what’s in store.

As an aside I would also like to thank Foxeye and Kael for their dedication to running this site. The couple of years working on the fan calendar has been worth the price of admission alone (not that I actually had to pay anything ), that and Foxeye’s naughty bits picture. Being the boss obviously has its perks…haha.

This is a perfectly valid concern, and one that I honestly cannot fully answer at the current point in time due to not knowing exactly what needs to be done with the site etc.

It would certainly have been nice to be able to say "Yes, I'll keep the site running until no one ever visits it anymore", but until I've tried running it, I can't do that.

I can commit to at least one thing however, and that is hosting the site. If I later on feel like taking the sysop role was a mistake, I'll ask around the community for someone else, give them a crash course in how things are done and so on, but unless you find a better suited host I have no problem in hosting this place indefinitely.

As for thinking it through, I'd basically be doing what I do in my spare time right now, but for a site that people actually like and use. There's differences, yes, but once a stable foundation has been built there's most likely not going to be too much work for me to do which helps prevent me getting burnt out.

[Miss Gillespie]

So why not ask Foxeye and Kael how much time and money they invested to keep this site running?

[Foxeye]

I'm glad this site has done good for people; it's nice to be getting back-pats at this stage rather than the hurt scowls and boos I was expecting.  Given that no one is calling us names at this stage, I'm sure we will be around.

 

I'm also glad Maggie posted what she did...it's a necessary question if we all want this to go well. (Though I still say you are imagining the naughty bits, woman. I would never abuse my position and draw such a thing!  )

Warg, were you the friend who was going to work with Mirr when she first registered elfquestfanart.com, before Kael & I got excited about the project and asked for the domain? If so, there's a certain amount of symmetry here.

The key thing that has kept this incarnation of EQFA from being "fire and forget" is that I hand-customized the gallery mod so extensively that doing a security update took days. I never learned how to make my changes into a proper SMF package.  If you avoid making manual code changes, and if the site doesn't cost you anything to host, then I think you are right that the site will take minimal time from you.

And on that note, I'm going to hand the microphone to Kael, who I think will do a better job summarizing what we've been discussing the past few days.

[Obi-Rak Kaeliri]

Now, on the topic of site longevity, there is always the option of going to a Deviantart or Yahoo! group.

That means that if someone does take on the mantle of running this site, and a year later decides that it's too much work, this group can just as easily migrate to a dA or Y! group at that point. When we're talking about someone taking over the site, we're not talking about everyone having to start over: we're talking about doing a proper site-migration, with database, user accounts, posts, galleries, and even the site URL intact. There'd be no wasted effort from the part of members.

Migrating to a dA or Y! group on the other hand would require everyone to start fresh.

If there would not be migration of this site's content, there'd be little benefit to running a separate site over using a dA or Y! group.

With that out of the way, on the topic Warg+Mirr (or someone else) taking over running the site, let this be clear: this would be your show and neither Foxeye nor myself would (or indeed could) impose any choices upon you. Fundamentally we would just provide you with a database dump and a bunch of gallery files, and you're left to do with them as you please. We will, of course, reserve the right to choose to whom we provide these sensitive items

That said, given the concerns voiced in this thread, I would recommend that the new hosts of the site distribute the site management load by enlisting the help of the community. This is actually something that has always been a part of our roadmap for phase-2 implementation strategy of this latest incarnation of EQFA (in addition to the feature roadmap): when Foxeye and I started this site the larger Elfquest community was too amorphous to draw upon, so we were left to our own devices to design and implement all aspects of this site. Now EQFA has a community to draw upon, and it might be beneficial to bring the community in on running and improving the site in limited fashion. Enlisting the help of moderators could be one way, but another way could be setting up contests for letting our CSS+XHTML savvy members design a new theme for the site.

The decision on whether to use moderators is not clear-cut by any means, and there are pros and cons to both approaches, but in the long term I feel it can help lessen the load for the sysadmin and the super moderator, which in turn lends itself to letting the site run itself in case the sysadmin workload grows beyond expected.

Now, Warg, I do not know what particular method you'd choose to re-implement this site, but from my perspective there are three choices:

1) Re-implement the current software stack (SMF and Aeva)
   -> Simply put the gallery files in the proper directory, import the database, change a few fields, and away you go.
   -> Probably the simplest and fastest way to get the site up and running in a new home
2) Write a database conversion script for a software stack of your choice
   -> Slightly more effort, but fairly easily doable
   -> You're on your own with this one
3) Write a custom site from ground up using the existing database and gallery files as base
   -> Most time-consuming option of the bunch
   -> I'd personally recommend against this as a phase-1 transition strategy

Under all three options you're left to design and implement your own theme. I'd also highly recommend that you devise your own registration agreement and site rules, albeit you are also welcome to use our current set of rules if you so choose; it would be good to have the new rules in place before the migration so that when the members reset their passwords on the new site they'll have to accept the new site rules.

Back to the community bit, I can see the community being able to help you with...

• (A team of moderators can help with) site moderation
• (The moderators can help) crafting a new user agreement and site rules
• (The community at large can help) creating a new theme

In addition to above, we can share with you what our original roadmap for features and implementation was for this incarnation of EQFA: you will undoubtedly come up with your own roadmap, but you might be amused by seeing what direction we were planning on taking this place

[Warg]

Warg, were you the friend who was going to work with Mirr when she first registered elfquestfanart.com, before Kael & I got excited about the project and asked for the domain? If so, there's a certain amount of symmetry here.

That was not me, no.

The key thing that has kept this incarnation of EQFA from being "fire and forget" is that I hand-customized the gallery mod so extensively that doing a security update took days. I never learned how to make my changes into a proper SMF package.  If you avoid making manual code changes, and if the site doesn't cost you anything to host, then I think you are right that the site will take minimal time from you.

Alright. I don't intend to just set everything up and then disappear never to be seen again, but I'll try to avoid customizing too much.

1) Re-implement the current software stack (SMF and Aeva)
   -> Simply put the gallery files in the proper directory, import the database, change a few fields, and away you go.
   -> Probably the simplest and fastest way to get the site up and running in a new home
2) Write a database conversion script for a software stack of your choice
   -> Slightly more effort, but fairly easily doable
   -> You're on your own with this one Smiley
3) Write a custom site from ground up using the existing database and gallery files as base
   -> Most time-consuming option of the bunch
   -> I'd personally recommend against this as a phase-1 transition strategy

I'm most likely to do option 1, as (except for the theme) that'd make the transitioning for users more transparent.

Back to the community bit, I can see the community being able to help you with...

• (A team of moderators can help with) site moderation
• (The moderators can help) crafting a new user agreement and site rules
• (The community at large can help) creating a new theme

In addition to above, we can share with you what our original roadmap for features and implementation was for this incarnation of EQFA: you will undoubtedly come up with your own roadmap, but you might be amused by seeing what direction we were planning on taking this place

All three items in the list would be very appreciated, especially the last item.
The roadmap would also be nice if I do end up taking over, it would be nice to see what you were planning to do, and would undoubtedly help in developing our (as in, the community's) roadmap.

[Mirr]

Warg has started fiddling with SMF stuff to learn the ropes, and judging by various exclamations, so far so good! *keeps fingers crossed*

That said, given the concerns voiced in this thread, I would recommend that the new hosts of the site distribute the site management load by enlisting the help of the community. This is actually something that has always been a part of our roadmap for phase-2 implementation strategy of this latest incarnation of EQFA (in addition to the feature roadmap): when Foxeye and I started this site the larger Elfquest community was too amorphous to draw upon, so we were left to our own devices to design and implement all aspects of this site. Now EQFA has a community to draw upon, and it might be beneficial to bring the community in on running and improving the site in limited fashion. Enlisting the help of moderators could be one way, but another way could be setting up contests for letting our CSS+XHTML savvy members design a new theme for the site.

*nodsnods*
An overall layout/theme challenge for the new incarnation of the site sounds like a good idea, and a splendid way to add to the revival and bonding between new and old members

I'd be happy to be act as admin/liaisons person for other mods and/or help keep Warg updated on stuff overall when the techy stuff needs fixing/changing, and we'll figure out the rest as it goes along!

And hm, appears the quote function appears oddly for me, will have to see if it's my browser or funky addons that are acting up or if we can bug Warg about it

[Songflower]

Foxeye and Kael, while I don't contribute art or very many posts to this site, I visit very frequently and have enjoyed it very much.  I'm sure it's been a labor of love.  Now that you have to move on to other endeavors, I wish you the best of luck and thanks for all your good work here for the past several years.

[TrollHammer]

It seems that I have once again fallen into the "it'll be around forever" trap, and was suprised to hear this bit of news.  I should have checked in here more often.

I truely wish I had kept up with my skills to offer help. The spirit is willing but I'm far too far behind in my knowledge to be any help at all, unless there's something that just about anyone can do (hold on to info, or whatever).

That said, I have a suggestion.  I hadn't logged in here in a while and hadn't participated much (if at all, can't remember), so I didn't realize that so many people migrated over here. I just noticed that there have been fewer and fewer over at Elfquest.com.  It seems like things are dieing over there in a way...

However, it's not just there.  I've been poking around trying to find info on games and other ideas to get more interest going (not realizing all the activity here), and found so many dead links... so many... like finding out someone switched out the flower garden's fertilizer with Roundup.  Makes me sick to see how many things I've missed out on (only became active in the EQ community about 2 months before they switched the site over, and didn't know about anything else before that).

I don't want to see this site die on top of it all. Things happen, but it just seems like there's so much of it... I'm rambling... Sorry.

Anyway, back to my recommendation before I so rudely interrupted myself.  I'd suggest that someone (perhaps several someones) get a collection of contact info in case something happens.  I realize it's a touchy subject with the possilbe private information, but if say, this site's member info is lost, but a new site is put up down the road, an email could be sent so people could know.  Don't know if you all know each other on facebook as well, or something, as I do not have A FB account, and wont if I can help it.

Anyway. I hope for the best.  If something does get messed up, someone let me know what happens over on Elfquest.com. I'll be keeping that account active.

[Obi-Rak Kaeliri]

Fortunately it looks like someone is taking over running this site -- including a complete replica of the site's contents. There'll also be more people actively involved in running the site, so things could spice up a bit too

Also, Foxeye and I will still hold on to a copy of this site's database, so we can help if someone really needed to get in touch with someone. With Google's help, Foxeye and I are pretty easy to find on the Internet.

[Obi-Rak Kaeliri]

Alea iacta est.

[Faerydae]

I've been really sick and so haven't been up to much, but on the path to recovery.

I can offer what we have here and a bit more. I run two commercial grade servers - so hosting isn't an issue.

I can offer stability and techie stuff. What I'd need is a team of folks to help me with the day to day stuff.

Not sure if this is needed or not, as I haven';t read through the entire thread, but it's what I can do to help.

[Faerydae]

Let me add in as well, since I'm already paying for my servers - I can easily host the site without additional costs, I would consider it as giving back to the world of ElfQuest for everything that it has brought to me over the past 30+ years. I can commit to keeping it going for as long as there is interest, although I will admit, when the EQ movie hits ... I might need to move it to it's own dedicated server! LOL!

As a long term member of this site in all it's incarnations and on the EQ forums, I'd be proud and happy to help wherever I could.

[Obi-Rak Kaeliri]

Hi Faerydae -- I hope you're feeling better

What is currently happening is that Warg and Mirr are basically going to do what you suggest on Warg's server. There's a team of members who have volunteered to act as mods on the new incarnation of the site, and the transition is being hashed out in a private section of this forum.

[Faerydae]

Ah okay.

Well the offer stands should it ever be needed.

[Treefox]

I also hope that you are better! But you definitely pop back in at the perfect moment. I think we can need your skills very much, very soon.

[Faerydae]

Always willing to help out where I can, it's the least that I can do!

If nothing else, I can extend a permanent offer to be a solid back-up plan should the need ever arise.

[Embala]

What is currently happening is that Warg and Mirr are basically going to do what you suggest on Warg's server. There's a team of members who have volunteered to act as mods on the new incarnation of the site, and the transition is being hashed out in a private section of this forum.

So things are proceeding and there's a good chance EQFA will stay? 

[Treefox]

As it looks now, it's probably going to look very basic in the  beginning, but the site should continue to exist.