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[Tevokkia]

Okay, I'm throwing this out there:  Everyone, help me find a place to publish this thing!  I've been searching.  CafePress doesn't have a weekly calendar with images (we could have it published as a spiral bound book, but it would be in black and white    ).  I'll drop Richard a message to get his input about permission for publishing outside of the CP Wolfrider's Shop if the proceeds go to Wolf Park.  He might have ideas of other on-demand publishers.  But I need help finding one, especially if we want to go the two-year route.

I've been looking around and can't find anyone that has weekly calendars, but we could always go with a print-on-demand book publisher. It would be some additional layout work, though, having to lay out the calendar portion rather than just the art. (I'd be happy to help if it came to that- I've been doing graphic design on the side for awhile).

You might want to check out Create Space. The calendar/book would be able to be sold through Amazon.com, if you're looking for a wide audience for it. I'm not sure what the final customer price would be, but I got an estimate for the "buy a copy of your own book" price for a softcover 8.5"x8.5" with a full color interior and 108 pages, and it ran a little less than $15. Again, I don't know what price range you're looking for, what the markup is, or whether you want to even go with something that mainstream, though. (And they don't seem to have a lot of binding options).  I think they say that royalties are paid quarterly, so that would make it easy to forward the proceeds to Wolfpark (or whatever other charity) without having to keep track of each and every sale.  Just putting that out there.

[Faerydae]

Okay, I'm throwing this out there:  Everyone, help me find a place to publish this thing!  I've been searching.  CafePress doesn't have a weekly calendar with images (we could have it published as a spiral bound book, but it would be in black and white    ).  I'll drop Richard a message to get his input about permission for publishing outside of the CP Wolfrider's Shop if the proceeds go to Wolf Park.  He might have ideas of other on-demand publishers.  But I need help finding one, especially if we want to go the two-year route.

IMO, Cafepress sucks! LOL! Zazzle is waaaaaaaaaaaay better! I finally got two of my mugs and they look AMAZING and I LOVEEEEEEEEEEEE them and use them ALL the time!

Their calenders are really cool too! And they do different sizes and also a 19 or 24 month.

What they offer ...

Full bleed printing with vibrant colors
5 unique styles and sizes available
Choose from over 10 styles for dates and holidays
Optional start and end dates - select any time period in 2011 and 2012
Wire-o binding - choose from 7 colors: black blue gold green red silver white
Styles and Sizes:
**Two page
-Standard: 11" x 17" (each page is 11" x 8.5"): $20.95 ea
-Huge: 14.25" x 22" (each page is 14.25" x 11"): $25.95 ea
-Small: 7" x 11" (each page is 7" x 5.5"): $18.95 ea
**Single page
-Standard: 11" x 17": $18.95 ea
-Small: 7" x 11": $17.95 ea
**Add $4.00 for 13-18 month calendars, add $8.00 for 19-24 month calendars

I've been pleased so far with all my purchases of my own merchandise from Zazzle. Plus if you buy the annual Zazzle Black membership - it costs you 10 bucks a year and you get free shipping! And considering that to ship ANYthing it will cost a bottom rate of 7.98 ... waaaay better to just throw out ten bucks a year ... lots of artists I know use this to create their prints to sell (myself included), they even print ACEOs, and allll sorts of great stuff.

http://www.zazzle.com/custom/calendars here is the link right to the calendar section if you guys want to check it out!


Edited to add:
I did a quickie video of creating a mock calendar as someone that hasn't yet registered on Zazzle:


Click to play

As a result, since I'm usually creating as a seller there, I kind of did some habitual things at the end - like posting for sale which you can't do unless you are logged in. And it gave me warning about the images being sized too large because the two images I used as a demo are super tiny and not hi res.

Just thought it might help to see the variety of things that you can do. You can also opt for no grid and just add in your own images on both sides of the page - and I know one person that did use the calendar as a book, they just put the images into the calendar on their side lol.

[Foxeye]

FYI, I've split the publishing suggestions from the main guideline thread into their own topic, since I think this conversation is deserving of it's own focus.  

I think that our best option is probably to just treat this thing as if we were publishing a children's book or comic book, or some other self-published book that came with color artwork.  With the 8.5x11 formatting I don't know as it'd really be a practical physical planner, since those are usually much smaller books that you can throw in your briefcase/purse, but it'd sure make for one heckuva beautiful art book for the coffee table!

Windrider, I'm also offering myself to help with that end of things (pricing out different self-publishing outfits such as Createspace, converting files into the format they want, etc) when the time comes.  Assuming we get WaRPs OK.

[Tevokkia]

Did some more looking around today at book publishers. Unfortunately, it seems that CafePress only publishes black-and-white books (and wouldn't that be silly!)

So here are some other places I looked at. Unfortunately, the only alternative to CreateSpace (in case their options won't work for us) is Lulu. Zazzle doesn't do books, and iUniverse and several others don't do color interiors. Some of the others had pretty ridiculous policies. There are a couple that I did include despite the fact that they don't distribute, just in case someone wanted to look at that option.

Lulu: www.lulu.com
8.5x11 photo books (probably the best bet for full color) starts 15.95 for softcover and 25.95 for hardcover for the first 20 pages (.50 per page after that) if you're buying them singly (which I'm assuming would be the most frequent way to buy them). Binding options for softcover include perfect, stapled, or spiral binding, and hardcover books can be ordered with or without a slipcover. You can upload a PDF of your layout. You can choose how much "creator revenue" to charge. Payment options are monthly PayPal payments, or quarterly paper checks.

Book1One: www.book10ne.com
They seem a little pricey, but I may be overestimaging the total number of pages- fortunately, there's a big fat link to a price estimator on the front page. Same binding options as Lulu, pretty much. They do use PDF uploads. They seem to be a "we'll print your book and you have to worry about distributing it" printer, however.

48HrBooks: www.48hrbooks.com
Still going with 8.5x11, prices range around $20/book for softcover (perfect or coil bound) and $27 for hardbound. However, it looks like another place that just prints them and sends them along.

This is probably not going to be an inexpensive calendar ... we're likely looking at upwards of $30 each.

[Tevokkia]

I think that our best option is probably to just treat this thing as if we were publishing a children's book or comic book, or some other self-published book that came with color artwork.  With the 8.5x11 formatting I don't know as it'd really be a practical physical planner, since those are usually much smaller books that you can throw in your briefcase/purse, but it'd sure make for one heckuva beautiful art book for the coffee table!

Just looking at pricing, this project doesn't look like it would be very practical at all. It might be easier to just make an art book out of the whole thing. (And then maybe do a small calendar with selected images, just so there actually is a calendar). It would be super cool to sell them as a set so as to still be celebrating the whole 10th anniversary business.

Just a thought.

[Windrider]

Actually, I was thinking we'd go smaller than 8.5 x 11 for the printed version.  You are right that it isn't practical for a planner calendar.  Most of the art that is already submitted is simpler than our usual calendar entries and would read better at a smaller size anyway.  However, having the full sized res is great in case we need to fall back on it for wallpapers, etc.

I have found a few formats I like for planners and don't mind formatting the grid too (what is new anyway ? - I do that every year).  So all we would need is to be able to have a spiral bound "book" printed from our JPGs or PDFs.

[Tevokkia]

Actually, I was thinking we'd go smaller than 8.5 x 11 for the printed version.  You are right that it isn't practical for a planner calendar.  Most of the art that is already submitted is simpler than our usual calendar entries and would read better at a smaller size anyway.  However, having the full sized res is great in case we need to fall back on it for wallpapers, etc.

I have found a few formats I like for planners and don't mind formatting the grid too (what is new anyway ? - I do that every year).  So all we would need is to be able to have a spiral bound "book" printed from our JPGs or PDFs.

If we're going to do a smaller size book, we might want to skip Lulu- the sizes they offer are pretty limited for full-color books. CreateSpace has several industry standard options to choose from, plus some custom options. What size are you thinking? More like 8.5x5.5?

[Faerydae]

Well like I mentioned in my edit, since you can use the calendars and choose to yank out everything (grids included) and upload your own images - so you can actually use them as a book. I know a couple of fantasy artists that do that and have loved the results. I just haven't produced enough art that I like enough to make one so I haven't gotten a chance to order one myself yet. Kinda if the nicest thing about zazzle is the ability to strip out everything and put in your own stuff.

The ACEOs for example are chubby business cards - the default pop up windows will have text fields, but if you cancel it out you can just add in an image to fill the entire surface and thus create something entirely different out of what zazzle will only suggest to you as a business card ... just got to think outside of the box on the items and they really let you do some cool stuff. Like if you use transparent hi res images for the text - instead of the default text box that they give you - you can do all sorts of stuff.

But honestly, maybe we ought to think about splitting this into two projects .... do a calendar AND do a fan art book - the book would allow a LOT more folks to be included - and not have to sacrifice an ounce of space for a calendar grid.

Sort of like a win-win ... with the book everyone could get in perhaps and then limit the calendar to a smaller selection ... just a thought!

[Faerydae]

Oh yeah and another thought for the calendar - if they are simple, maybe you can "double up" - use two images side by side - that would automatically double the space available, if folks were all working in a portrait format rather than a landscape.

[Windrider]

Folks aren't all working in portrait format instead of landscape - they are doing square compositions, as I hope you are! 

I went to Staples and looked at their selection of organizers and planners - just to see what sort of thing people really use (I am not the sort of person who is that organized as to have one.  LOL).  You know, I am now thinking something around the size of a standard comic book would be awesome.  Turned horizontal rather than the usual vertical, that extra bit on the long dimension would give us a usable grid along the one side not taken up by the square art (the boxes for each day would be long rather than square though).  The size is good too.  Small enough to be portable but big enough to show off the art.

If we use that size, whether horizontal or vertical, it would be possible to have TWO artworks per week, one on the top page and one on the bottom page (or right and left pages).  How they break up the grid (in the ones at Staples) is to have three days on one page, and four days on the other (Saturday and Sunday sharing a space), because these are business calendars and don't format with Sunday being the first day of the week (just right for you European fans!).  Or Wednesday could span the "gutter."  Hmm.... I am going to have to think on this a bit more.  Usually, the Art Director hires me to do the illustrations (in my professional life) and they think about these things, not me!

I am not formatting a calendar AND a fan art book!  LOL  The point is to have the calendar be the fan art book.  The calendar needs to be reasonably practical, but less important than the actual art.  It needs to be however many pages long to include all the art, even if that means two years worth of calendar.

If I were planning a fan art book, I would not have such a restrictive theme - just include the best EQ fan interpretations of all time.

[Faerydae]

I'm just working on the pose sketches right now, so I'm not yet confining myself to space.

I did another vid of zazzle and using their calendar as a book - or whatever - pretty much you can blank out all pages and make the calendar into whatever the heck you can dream it into becoming really.

Only reason I keep mentioning it is because no one else seemed familiar with it, and if you judged it based on other sites - like cafe press who limits you on how far you can customize things like calendars and such - you wouldn't really be giving it a fair consideration.

I know you guys will likely go elsewhere, but I figured as one that has used zazzle for all sorts of things (my clubs and groups outside of art) I might be the best person to at least point out where it excels in areas that folks unfamiliar with it might not be aware of if they have never actually taken it for a test run.

Anyways - this vid shows what I meant by deleting the pre-existing grids and turning it into a book as well and putting two different images on one page  as well as using a transparent image with text instead of using their default text boxes ... just because I don't think I was doing a very good job explaining it in words.

The other nice thing, you can always create it as a seller - but do NOT make it public, and order a copy to verify the quality is something you are happy with before really deciding it's not an option. Then if you like it, you just make it public and lock everything down so no one can edit it and presto - it's done.


Click to play

excuse my sucky demos .... I was doing it on the fly lol

But ahhhh I'll shut up about it now and stop cheerleading it LOL now that I've spoken up for it lol.

[Foxeye]

If we use that size, whether horizontal or vertical, it would be possible to have TWO artworks per week, one on the top page and one on the bottom page (or right and left pages).  How they break up the grid (in the ones at Staples) is to have three days on one page, and four days on the other (Saturday and Sunday sharing a space), because these are business calendars and don't format with Sunday being the first day of the week (just right for you European fans!).

*ears perk up* I had been trying to brainstorm, when the flurry of interest hit, if a one-year planner could somehow have two pieces of artwork per week.  Now that you describe this layout it seems so obvious.

This would allow you to pair-up couples/siblings/bestbuddies if you felt so inclined!

[Windrider]

Glad you like that idea, Foxeye.  We'll see.  Of course, it all depends on what Richard will approve, as we can't legally go creating and selling this thing except through him.

Thanks, all of you who are being so helpful looking up options.  I hardly knew where to look at first, but these are all good sources.  I especially like the fact that these places let you blank out their format in favor of your own.  I wouldn't have known that was possible.

Since you guys are being so helpful, can you see if there are any formats like this one for self publishing?  This was my original ideal for publishing, with the square art on the side allowing room for the character's name and the artist as a graphic element.
http://www.calendarsblog.com/salvador-dali-planner/
(WARNING:  this links to a Salvador Dali "pin-up" who is nude.  LOL)

[Faerydae]

I know you could do it for zazzle, if you had the weekly planner bit as a template image for each page, but ... I'm pretty certain that it wouldn't have enough pages - I think the most pages it does is enough for 24 months.

Here are some weekly planner templates though:  http://www.vertex42.com/calendars/weekly-planner.html

But I think you might be looking for something more like this maybe?
http://www.lifephoto.com/catalog/daily-planners/day-planners/

"Make your own day planner with your favorite photos. Add custom date reminders for special events and occasions. Daily planners come in two sizes and can be filled with 12, 27 or 54 pictures. Planners are spiral bound. Share your daily planner with friends and family with our send-to-friend feature."

Size: 4.4 × 6    
13 Images = $21.00
27 Images = $24.95
54 Images = $30.10

Size: 8 × 11    
13 Images = $28.00
27 Images = $32.95
54 Images = $37.10

[Tevokkia]

Both of the places I looked at that had workable sizes (CreateSpace and Lulu) had pre-done formats as only an option. The other option was to lay out everything the way you wanted in whatever program you're using and send it in as a PDF, allowing for as customized a layout as you wanted. (Pretty much, you make your own template rather than worrying about having to chuck out elements of theirs).

I'm still keeping my eye out for other print on demand publishers that have smallish books with full color interiors or places that have a weekly planner template, but haven't found anything else viable yet.