I definitely have to agree with some of your points, Faerydae.
My perception (at the moment) of the progression of the site update is that WaRP realized that the old site was very out-of-date looking, so of course, they wanted something that looks contemporary and professional. Great! But I'm also perceiving the idea that they've decided that the Wave of the Future is places like Facebook and MySpace and Twitter, and they want to capture the attention of users who are attracted to those places... without considering whether the people who already used EQ.com or SoC felt the same way.
Yeah it struck me as a very "knee jerk" reaction to suddenly realizing how out of date it was - sad thing was, the forum was VERY current - that was the main part that didn't actually NEED to be changed, but really just embedded into a CMS or community platform.
I don't like Facebook really either - but it's been helpful for my sales and exposure of my artwork - so it, like Twitter, has resulted in helping me successfully market and sell my work. So i've been forcing myself to like it to some small extent.
It's nice for staying in contact with our families though - Rays family is all in Ohio, I've never met them and facebook is allowing us to get to know each other for the first time in 11 years - and allowing me to reconnect with other parts of y family that I'd fallen out of touch with. But see I have a few accounts on Facebook - one for my art and my art buddies and one for my family and close friends, as I technically have two last names.
I don't think that they really have had much experience with online stuff - especially marketing in terms of profit - duide they could be making SOOOO much more money - I'd always just figured they *chose* not to, but I'm starting to realize that no ... I think maybe they just don't know.
Maybe that's just the way of things. After all -- the regular users of SoC are users they already had and whose loyalty could be counted on to a certain extent. It's fairly likely that a good percentage of them will swallow their frustrations and work to adapt to the new format. So what the change in format does is make it possible to attract *new* users whose willingness to check out and become a part of a site really *is* dependent on it being in that New Shiny format.
That *only* works if the site is
FAST! LOL! NO one - me included - has patience for a site that takes 5 minutes to load each page - sorry it can be as nifty as all hell - but if it drags - people *will* stop trying and go elsewhere.
Sites should *always* consider speed of page generation a TOP priority - if it is annoying or takes too long to load - then they will not bother, period. In fact IMO, the priority list should go something like security, speed of page generation/load times, ease of navigation, screen resolution (yeah it's that low on my list lol), then content, THEN the features. The bells and whistles should ALWAYS be last in my book - they are just the shiny pretty baubles, but without the rest you have a pretty shiny bauble no one else will ever bother to look at, so in the end, what good is it?
A GOOD website developer will force their client to at least HEAR that logic, even if they know they will reject it, they say it anyway, hehe! The client might still decide "they know best" when in fact they do not, but at least then you *tried* lol. That's when you mutter under your breath while smiling and go and do the work *knowing* it is a complete waste of time and effort because you will either have to do over (usually the way you suggested to begin with) or go chasing down another goofy flipping idea that you can't talk them out of. Sometimes they just
HAVE to learn the hard way as painful as it is to sit by and watch. And it is ever so painful, it really is.
The bad website developer never counsels the client at all, either because THEY don't have a flipping clue themselves, they just got a server with a control panel and knew enough to hobble a site together lol, or they know they are out of their depth and just don't care, and all the gray areas between those two extremes.
I also can't really argue with the fact that Facebook is ridiculously popular, and it seems to have some staying power. Just because *I* hate it, that's immaterial. Millions of people use it, and therefore must like it; and by making EQ.com/SoC more like Facebook, I can see how the likelihood is that they'll appeal to that market, and that's what they want, to expand the EQ market.
It's just plain good marketing. It really is. But marketing is ALWAYS slimy to some degree or another LOL!
With reference to one of Richard's latest posts in the discussion about the new site... I really do have to wonder how many users of SoC truly wanted it to become MORE like Facebook. The fact that "some" people said that they wanted more Facebook-like features doesn't mean that's what the user-base overall wanted. There wasn't really any wide survey of SoC users on that point, was there? I don't recall getting to weigh in on it.
Off hand my guess is very very few wanted it to be more like FB. You can have FB features up the yen-yang without it being *like* FB - just need to know what is out there and then choose the best option that will do all the fun things you want while not mucking with the cardinal rules of security, speed, intuitive/ease of navigation, ability to organize and display the content. Prob is, folks often don;t know what they want will actually not help them or even hinder their goals.
Like my friend who when she wanted to start a business - felt that she HAD to start her business name with the letter A so it would show up FIRST in the phone book (not really the best marketing tool anymore lol) AND online. It literally took me TWO years to get it through her head that online marketing does NOT depend on alphabetizing everything. And that choosing a loopy name just because it starts with an A when it has nothing at all to do with her business or relate to her business at all is simply counter-productive and rather pointless as well as being a total waste of money. lol
Or, as you say, on anything. It was all kept very hush-hush. And the other disadvantage of doing a site redesign that way, as we're seeing now, is that any complaints that any users have about new features is met with some defensiveness. Which is only natural! They put a LOT of work into the redesign, and obviously, they chose things for it that they wanted. It's hard to unveil something like that, and have your users grumble about it. I would also acknowledge that it's true that you can't please everyone. Even if the process had been open, and there'd been a bunch of surveys of users of the old site/forum, they'd still wind up disappointing some people.
Yeahhhhh my guess is it is just more like old-school mentality and not the mentality that is used to dealing with a dynamic and interactive site and members that are USED to playing on such sites. That and I got the impression that they aren't used to the general masses being involved in site stuff to THAT level when they weren't themselves. I've been building interactive community sites with php since like 2002. It's sort of my *job* to stay on top of the latest site stuff because I do host sites, and I do have clients I need to please and serve and then provide support for.
So I dunno, I guess I'm used to it - I mean I'd asked him how many times what platform they were gong to use? He didn't even reply to one. Not even to just say - sorry but even that I am not wishing to reveal at this time, LOL! I even asked him in PM - because I was thinking if they are headed towards a bad wall maybe I can help by pointing out other options that are better suited and way more stable. But well, we weren't really given a chance and well that's cool too, it is what it is. ::shrug:: It's too late to change now lol, and it is my experience that says when someone allows themselves to get THIS deeply committed it will likely take them months or even YEARS of slamming their heads against the walls to finally admit defeat and just use what is truly best for them to use. Yes, they will rationalize it with all sorts of things, they will work it out eventually.
If it was ME and they were still dead set on using phpfox (which I mean come on once you slap down 300 bucks for a license on something like that you tend to hate to admit you are flushing it down the drain and so well stay on the ride until it's obvious the ride is a bad bad ride LOL) I would at least say okay well then lock the site down completely - install a temp forum for them to amuse themselves on while we do the work while telling them that every bit of info in that temp forum will be deleted. Then I'd take the remaining old database from the old forums, make a copy (cuz I never screw with the originals) and then do all the steps needed to update the phpbb to phpfox and integrate that forum with all the familiarity right into it. Then make sure all is working well and as it should before releasing it live. That includes deciding what to do with all the loose ends. And I'd do that NOW before the new forum acquired much more data so it would be easier to kill file that mess LOL! How the old posts look is horrible. Would have been better to archive the board itself and just start over on the site and lock down the forum so you can read it but not edit or post on it.
But that's just me - doesn't mean I am right or that it's the best way ... by any means LOL!
But still... I get the feeling that in some ways, it may not help them "hear" what are valid user complaints, because the attitude now seems to be "you just dislike it because it's new, come back in 6 months after you're used to it and tell us then what you like/dislike". (Or, "suck it up" -- such as the latest post about the non-turn-off-able sounds. Really? The answer is "we think it's cute, and why do you need to use the page those sounds are on, anyway, if you don't like them"? That's the answer? Oh dear.)
See I just think that they do not really *know* how the average user was accessing their site or the ways they were finding the areas of their site or even what worked and what didn't. They fixed things that weren't broken and didn't need to be fixed and in doing so, broke them for how the people - their audience - used them.
Straight out, there is NO flash player in *existence* that will deliver the online comics as reliably, as easily, without taxing their servers all that much, and without a single shred of frustration like the original way they were presented. Yes, there were some navigational changes that could have been made .. but flash?
Geez. Badddd idea. I don't care how successful gocomi is with that - it will *never* compete in terms of pleasing the masses like the old way did, it can't even come close!
I just I'd had an opportunity or chance to warn him better .
I truly feel his pain and I do not envy him right now at all. That's why I don't want to give him any more headaches poor guy I know what it is like to do a bunch of work and then have everyone just point out the crap that still needs work, it's annoying and gets you pissy. lol.
Maybe it seemed like too chaotic an idea to survey the user-base beforehand. But, as you point out, once the whole redesign is DONE, there's a lot more reluctance to listen to user opinions or to change some things that aren't easily changeable.
Yeah it is ALWAYS more easy to point out different options and the pros and cons to each BEFORE committing yourself to the point that you actually shell out cash. Once they hit that level of personal commitment - the thing practically has to explode on them for them to realize it BEFORE they lose a huge chunk of their audience. it is really hard to regain traffic that has already come your way and been turned off. Like sites with pop-ups and music ... I tend to never come back, even to see if they ever got a clue, I just never want to go back.
Ah well, I guess it's really not my problem, but man. Sucks to watch this go down and be so blasted helpless. But at least it is a good refresher course on what NOT to do for myself so I guess there is a silver linin to it. Just hate to see my beloved EQ taking such hits - it's like I'm feeling the blows, know what I mean? lol
I have no doubt that they're listening to some degree, trying to fix some things, and that they're flexible on some things. But we're already seeing that in other fundamental matters, they're not.
I think in the end, they'll come around. If they have folks that actually have a clue, they'll be fine. if they have folks that are by and large really winging this ...well, then it will be lesson time I guess and they get the joy of learning such vital lessons by trial and error, like we all did. They mean well and they want GOOD things for us so you know they just got us a glass of milk instead of the root beer float that we really wanted LOL. they'll come through in the end, of that I have no doubt. Well it mean we are stuck with some not so great features? Maybe. Time will tell!
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